Here is the continuation of the piece; “An Argument For and Against Capitalism”
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Person Five:
my parents were poor as fuck but i supported them. they both were work a holics but they did not make enough cash to cover rent, bills and food. i moved away from home at 17 in 1980 but i still carried on supporting them because they did t…heir best as they slaved away at crap jobs , i saw it as my duty to help them out. capitalism is a nasty killer system. as a kid me and mom went out after the food stores shut to get the food they threw out. even tho the nasty guards threatened us with guns. saying rude shit to mom like “why don’t u come here and shop like “normal people”. my mom said “do u think we like to go through your garbage to get some food?, we paid our rent and not much was left for rent”. ah yes the u.s.a. the best nation on earth. what a bunch of SHIT!! i learned that at a young age. i think we must be self reliant. free of state control. stop being consumers of useless crap. i see all the debate about socialism vs capitalism. well how about folks going off the grid and becoming self reliant. sure as a kid in the ghetto in the 60s and 70s this was not really going on as far as i was aware.
i attended the black panther breakfast program in the late 60s because of my economic status, i am not black, so the reason i was accepted in the program was purely economic. it was a community effort for us kids in the ghetto.
i do think it is crazy to expect help from the greedy capitalists , after all they want us to be hooked to their system. my parents never applied for help via the system. they were immigrants anyways. after all the system was too busy waging wars around the world to gain profits for the greedy capitalist power structure. the main motto for capitalism is “expand or die”
here”s hoping there is a revolt in the u.s.! fight the power.
i attended the black panther breakfast program in the late 60s because of my economic status, i am not black, so the reason i was accepted in the program was purely economic. it was a community effort for us kids in the ghetto.
i do think it is crazy to expect help from the greedy capitalists , after all they want us to be hooked to their system. my parents never applied for help via the system. they were immigrants anyways. after all the system was too busy waging wars around the world to gain profits for the greedy capitalist power structure. the main motto for capitalism is “expand or die”
here”s hoping there is a revolt in the u.s.! fight the power.
Person Two:
Your views are negative against a group of people who are SAID to be capitlists. When you hear “capitalist”, you’ve been programmed to see an old white man swimming in a pool of money naked with a gold dollar sign medallion. This is old and… outdated thinking. EVERYONE has options for survival and to thrive. Capitalism is a very base system, and interpretations of that doctrine of individuality are varied and some are negative! But you blaming capitalism for all the ills of the world is like me blaming the doctrine of Christ for all the superstitious “god-inspired” murders, or the tragedy in Guyana. You cant blame an idea for real-life problems, its the institution of the ideas that become troublesome.
Person Three:
I have seen many instances of Christianity that lived up to its Ideals. I have seen instances of socialism that have lived up to its ideals. I have seen instances in which both have failed. I have seen not one instance in which capitalism h…as been anything other than a greedy moral quagmire. Libertarians prate on about the free market being distorted by corporatism or corruption or conspiracies but they have never and can never show a single instance of their free market Utopia ever working anywhere at any time. And do you know why? Because you will NEVER get social benevolence out of a system based on cold blooded self-interests. I don’t care what Ayn Rand spouted on about the virtues of selfishness- Giraffes never breed Hippos.
Person Two: Ive never seen an example of socialism working in a real-life setting. That is why it is the moral version of a board game, or something of the like. Youre asking for a capitalistic UTOPIA, because you know a perfect society cant exist. Socialism IS utopianism, a giant pipe dream leading to its own defeat. Capitalism is great in that a business, ANY business, cannot exist without it. Certainly not Facebook, or whatever company makes your sex toys.
Person Three:
There are plenty of instances in which socialism has worked or is working right now. Chiapas has been a socialist success for over a decade now. Venezuala despite the propaganda has lifted thousand out of dire poverty under Chavez. Others w…eren’t so lucky. The Anarcho-syndicalists in Northern Spain during the Civil War were successful until they were crushed by the combined force of Stalinism, Fascism, and Republicanism. In every instance capitalism unchecked has had to rely on radical state intervention to bail it out of its own mess because it cannibalizes the tax-created infrastructure every time. It is a pathetic mess. You have no argument. Every time I bring up a point you rely on simple minded rhetoric and never address the fact that most of the world is in abject poverty and most of the world is capitalist. Or you try for some juvenile ad hominem attack. Sex toys, really? Who needs that shit when you have skype and the numerous women who want your to utilize it with them. Well, numerous for me- for you it seems unlikely!
Person Two:
I always address the point, but you choose to repeat the same entirely wrongly-minded points over and over again. I cant repeat myself to you EVERY time, but the point is, Chiapas is a violent part of a violent country, of which the entire …government is corrupt and the “kind’ socialistically sanctioned police force assaults the populace. Chavez is a sick bastard and also an anti-freedom of speech personality. Poverty is STILL ridiculous there, and crime and murder rates are some of the highest in the world. Chavez is also a dictator. How about your other hero, Castro? Lenin was an all-around dick as well! If Socialism creates quality, why are women regarded in the lowest way in Latin America and Cuba, and healthcare is despicable? As to the point you think Im avoiding, I.e., poverty? Poverty is a problem that has been around since the dawn of civilization, but all people are given the opportunity to GET a job in America because the capitalist “wage slavemasters” PAY people to work to make money, for them and their bosses. Most of the world, capitalist? Major countries follow a profit and work framework. For a group of people who seem to value labor so much, I dont see why you dont understand that people labor to make money, to buy things. Its simple. No commerce, no money, no THINGS, no comfort. Capitalism is what started this country, free enterprise, as well as enabling the POOR to work and survive. The government has no business babysitting everyone fm cradle to the grave.
As for the Anarcho-Syndicalists, any commune has not prospered unless it was really just people crashing in the same place. A “government-shaped” commune, with laws and a setup etc., have been failures.
Capitalism, as an idea, is great. In action, it is up to the person to make it work. Socialism relies upon a governmental power to organize, so any self-respecting liberty-minded individual, i.e., libertarian/anarchist type, would be sickened by the government having control of the entirety of the power behind life and death. Its a bullshit idea that is ENTIRELY impossible to implement in a developed nation like the US. Thats a promise.
Person Three:
You no what it? I take it all back. Capitalism is precisely and efficiently successful. When a few are profiting at the expense of the many that is the measure of the success of an ideology that has no other concern in life other than profi…t at all costs. Hell, even fascism has some sense of a society or a community to justify it! Society, community, humanity in general- these only factor into the equation when it turns a buck. One can not think of an ideology that more closely approximates the world view of a sociopath. Capitalism is amorality elevated to a metaphysical principle. You can try to justify it through some bullshit belief in “meritocracy.” That “merit” is just the merit of a con-man being good at lying. I don’t care what you tell yourself to sleep at night. By definition capitalism is concerned with only profit. Only a moron tries to hem and haw about how this will magically transform into the good of all. It doesn’t and can’t by its very definition. I will never trick myself into believing white is black like you have. I though will stick to a rational and compassionate understanding of life.
Person Two:
Your view is by no stretch of the imagination rational. To love others is a virtue, and to have family is a great choice, and helping the poor and the lesser-thans, so to speak, is fantastic. But all people who survive are being capitalists…. The problem that even INTELLIGENT leftist writers fail to understand is that they use compound terms like “capitalist government” as a means to create a visual of a cold, uncaring machine. “Amorality” is the choice of a person, and if a person IS a capitalist and chooses not to care about prisons or homeless people, that is his choice. But you and others like you seem to ignore that the people you hate, you hate not because of their political inclinations, its by their choices and how they present themselves. You cant think that capitalists are just waiting for things to become magically better, because it is up to PEOPLE to make it better. I think you’re negating people of other viewpoints is bigoted and rude, and as a former socialist and a prominent organizer of socialist ideaology, I CAN and WILL counter all your arguments with intellect and fervor. I am above making the crux of my argument a mere personal thing, and you seem to ignore that there are just as many people who are socialists who are cold, unfeeling people as there are in any other political facet. People are people, and just because you are a socialist doesnt make you an asshole. Mr. Ervin, above, who is a well-thought-out individual and a writer of several pamphlets which I have read, is not presenting himself as you are, as a sophomoric and ignorant prick, pissing on my leg over your pussy excuse for an argument. I am entirely opposed to your views of what has happened in the US, and I suggest you think about the error of wanting a welfare state, a state-socialist fascist empire where a rigid set of rules enslave the many just as you seem to think the government is doing now. There are problems in all civilizations, but on the whole, the United States is a place of individual freedom. Even as there are horrible issues with it, (I.e. the prison system, religious fundamentalism, murder), you can find those things in any continent on the globe. Dont dog America, because you are given the freedom to be your own person, whether you choose to take it or not.See More
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We’re talking with Justin Moyer, aka Edie Sedgwick, about making a music video. We’ll keep you checked in on that!
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— keep it surreal
— tom, (of the Hive)
SUNDAY(MORNING)ANIMATION 